The box office numbers for Joker: Folie à Deux are in, and the sequel to Todd Phillips’ original comic book movie seems to be languishing financially. On a budget of around 200 million dollars before taking advertising into account, the film has, at the time of writing, pulled in only a measly 40 million dollars domestically, barely edging past the 121 million mark worldwide. It’s clear that Joker: Folie à Deux has flopped at the box office, joining the ranks of Madame Web for comic book movies in 2024, with a multitude of factors explaining why.
Joker: Folie à Deux picks up where the previous film left off, with Arthur Fleck imprisoned in Arkham State Hospital while awaiting a highly-publicized trial for his crimes as The Joker. There, he meets Lady Gaga’s Lee Quinzel, who inspires him to lean into his clown identity further while inciting evermore violence. Going into Joker: Folie à Deux, many audiences were expecting something far different from what the film actually delivered, leading to a poor critical and commercial reception in addition to a variety of reasons.
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10 Joker: Folie à Deux Is Antagonistic Towards The First Film’s Success
Todd Phillips Has No Love For Many Joker Fans
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The first Joker was somewhat controversial for the unusual fanbase it acquired, with many self-identified incels enjoying the movie for what director Todd Phillips may view as the wrong reasons. Many have criticized the first film for promoting the sort of outcast rage perpetrated by its protagonist, garnering something of a toxic community of cult followers.
Whether the admonishment of these fans is justified or not, Phillips clearly seemed to have purposefully subverted the expectations of this particular audience through many of the narrative decisions in Joker: Folie à Deux. Joker: Folie à Deux seems to hold those who idolized Fleck in the first film in open contempt, making him as powerless as ever throughout the narrative.
Joker: Folie à Deux
joins the rare ranks of movies like
The Matrix Resurrections
that seem to almost despise their own existence.
Whatever Phillips intent was with these changes, negative word of mouth quickly spread among circles that would be more keen than most to see a sequel to Joker. In this way, Joker: Folie à Deux joins the rare ranks of movies like The Matrix Resurrections that seem to almost despise their own existence.
9 Joker: Folie à Deux Is A Divisive Psuedo-Musical
Joker’s Musical Presence Misses The Mark
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Ever since the announcement that Joker: Folie à Deux would be a musical, the film had been getting flack for the sudden change in genre. A more niche subset of films, musicals only appeal to a more select audience, and it’s safe to say that only a small subset of musical fans would also be interested in a comic book movie.
Related Joker: Folie à Deux Soundtrack Guide
Joker: Folie à Deux is full of memorable musical sequences, and now, its accompanying soundtracks are also available for fans to listen to at home.
Many die-hard fans of the first Joker may have been fundamentally opposed to the idea of a musical, which is admittedly a drastic tonal shift from the straightforward drama of the 2019 film. For those that do appreciate musicals, Joker: Folie à Deux seemed to have missed the mark. The generic showtunes aren’t worked into the plot, essentially being stylistic asides representative of Arthur and Lee’s fantasies, hardly qualifying the film as a musical in the first place.
As if that weren’t bad enough, many musically-inclined critics haven’t expressed much enthusiasm for Joaquin Phoenix’s singing voice. Meanwhile, the talented pop star Lady Gaga was clearly told to reign her own talents in to adhere to the film’s sense of realism.
8 Joker: Folie à Deux Didn’t Win Any New Fans Over
The Film Didn’t Do Anything To Replace Its Lost Audience
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Considering how much open contempt Joker: Folie à Deux seems to hold for those who loved the first film the most, it’s no wonder that this audience’s money couldn’t be counted upon for the final box office numbers. Where the film stumbled is in a lack of enough substance to draw in any new fans.
This is quite surprising considering the relative strength of The Joker and the Gotham mythos as an I.P. However, aside from disparaging its loudest fans, Joker: Folie à Deux. Doesn’t have a strong enough thesis statement to subsist itself commercially.
It’s all well and good for Todd Phillips to make a pointed rebuttal to what he sees as the misguided popularity of the first film, but without a good idea of what target audience is supposed to replace them, it’s no wonder that the film is struggling financially. In the end, it’s hard not to question who Joker: Folie à Deux is even for, a question the film itself doesn’t seem to have an answer to.
7 Joker: Folie à Deux Doesn’t Take Much Inspiration From The Comics
Joker 2 Hardly Qualifies As A Comic Book Movie At All
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Based on the Batman villain of DC Comics fame, both Joker and Joker: Folie à Deux are technically comic book movies. That being said, outside a handful of names, the Gotham City setting, and a brief cameo from a young Batman, Joker didn’t have all that much to do with its supposed source material.
Joker: Folie à Deux seems to have leaned even further away from its superhero origins, being almost ashamed of its technical status as a comic book adaptation. Joker: Folie à Deux introduces a version of Harley Quinn, Lady Gaga’s Lee Quinzel, as well as a new incarnation of Harvey Dent.
Beyond that, the film’s story is once again completely original, being more or less inconsequential to the DC universe at large. If it weren’t for a few key names and the identity of The Joker himself, Joker: Folie à Deux would hardly qualify as a comic book movie at all.
6 Joker: Folie à Deux Doesn’t Expand Much on the First Movie
Arthur Fleck’s Story Doesn’t Progress All That Meaningfully
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The most exciting aspect of any sequel is the potential to expand upon and improve the original. Joker: Folie à Deux could have gone in a lot of different directions, from further following Arthur Fleck’s rise to fame as The Joker to introducing its own version of Batman years later.
In practice, however, Joker: Folie à Deux has little to add to the overarching narrative of 2019’s Joker. The first film established the bleak dreariness of Todd Philllips’ Gotham and the woeful injustices that take place within, but Joker: Folie à Deux simply continues languishing in this world without developing any real new themes.
The novelty of the musical aspects of the film aren’t even fully original compared to the first film, as Arthur’s status as an unreliable narrator is already well-established. For having little to add to the previous film thematically, it’s possible Joker: Folie à Deux had lower box office numbers.
5 Joker: Folie à Deux Didn’t Use A Lot Of Scenes From The Trailer
The Second Movie Could Be Suffering From False Advertising
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The initial trailers for Joker: Folie à Deux painted the film in quite a positive light, being well-received and seemingly ensuring hesitant audiences that they were in good hands for the sequel. This makes it all the more astonishing that the film has flopped in the wake of this advertisement.
Related Every Joker: Folie A Deux Trailer Scene Cut From The Movie
There are several scenes from Joker: Folie à Deux’s trailers and set footage that weren’t seen in the actual theatrical cut of Todd Phillips’ sequel.
In reality, it could be that the trailers were almost too effective, outshining the film itself with the inclusion of several captivating moments that weren’t anywhere to be seen in the final cut. One notable beat included in the trailer as a key visual that is sorely absent from the film is Joker and Harley Quinn’s shared stair scene, where the two dance while vigorously kicking outwards in what seemed to be a display of solidarity for the mob surrounding them.
While the finished film did make use of the stairs, this hotly-anticipated moment was sorely absent, alongside a few other notable shots from the marketing materials. Word could’ve spread quite fast of the film’s false promises, leading to a weaker opening day quite quickly.
4 Joker: Folie à Deux Ran Out Of Scorsese Movies To Copy
Todd Phillips May Have Run Out Of Inspiration For Joker 2
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The first Joker movie very much wore its influences on its sleeve. From Taxi Driver to The King of Comedy, it’s very clear that Joker was heavily influenced by the filmography of Martin Scorsese, from the visuals to the very subject matter and plot. This inspiration was very obvious even from the original film’s first trailers, leading to an influx of viewers that were, if nothing else, curious to see Todd Phillips’ take on Scorsese’s classic values in filmmaking.
From Taxi Driver to The King of Comedy, it’s very clear that Joker was heavily influenced by the filmography of Martin Scorsese
Joker: Folie à Deux didn’t have the same benefit to enjoy, branching out into its own unique vision. Sadly, it seems as though Phillips more original ideas for the franchise weren’t enough to pique the interest of prestige cinema fans at least who obliged the original out of respect for its clear influences. Left to his own devices, it seems as though Todd Phillips didn’t have as clear a vision for Joker: Folie à Deux, resulting in a weaker box office haul.
3 Todd Phillips Himself Didn’t Think A Joker Sequel Was Necessary
It’s Hard To Buy Into A Sequel The Director Himself Wasn’t Invested In
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Part of the reason Joker: Folie à Deux wasn’t able to meaningfully add to the story of the first film could be attributed to the film’s ill-advised concept in the first place. Joker has quite a conclusive ending that doesn’t necessarily beg for a sequel, capping off the mad ascent of Arthur Fleck into the titular villainous persona quite satisfyingly.
It wasn’t long ago that Todd Phillips himself was issuing public statements that a Joker sequel wouldn’t work at all. Todd Phillips was quick to dismiss the idea of a sequel shortly after the first film’s release (Via IndieWire), dismissing the possibility as little more than an errant hypothetical.
Yet five years later, here Joker: Folie à Deux is, perhaps erroneously hoping that audiences would forget about Phillips’ own hesitancy to commit to a whole franchise of films. It seems Phillips’ apathy to a Joker sequel has come across to potential viewers, who have elected to give the film a pass judging by the box office numbers.
2 Joker: Folie à Deux Has An Unsatisfying Ending
Joker 2 Didn’t Leave Audiences With A Great Last Impression
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It’s important for any film to end things on a high note, if not thematically, than at least narratively, leaving a lasting impression on audiences’ minds as they exit the theater. 2019’s Joker understood this, leaving the fate of Gotham precariously balanced on the mob of clown-faced rioters inspired by Arthur Fleck’s actions. Sadly, Joker: Folie à Deux left a sour taste in the mouth of many viewers with its dour ending, which seemed to have come out of left field.
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Warning! Spoilers forJoker: Folie à Deux below.
In Joker: Folie à Deux, it becomes clear that Arthur Fleck’s legacy won’t be quite so grand. In the end, Arthur is unceremoniously murdered by a fellow Arkham inmate who only appears briefly before, who then goes on to carve a smile on his own face.
Beyond being unexpected in the worst way, this ending totally undermines the power fantasy Joker‘s more controversial fanbase sought in the character, turning Arthur into a victim of his own popularity. The ending of Joker: Folie à Deux was a likely a disappointment to many moviegoers who might’ve otherwise recommended the film via word-of-mouth.
1 Joker: Folie à Deux Was Made For Selfish Reasons
The Sequel Can’t Escape Allegations Of Being A Vanity Project
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With such shaky narrative grounds for a sequel and the gamble of a heel-turn genre pivot into musical theater, it’s a wonder Joker: Folie à Deux got made at all. While the original film only cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 million dollars, Joker: Folie à Deux more than doubled that figure, only to do disastrously worse compared to its billion-dollar-earning older sibling.
Related 9 Biggest Changes Joker 2 Makes To DC Canon
Joker: Folie a Deux is set in a far more bleak and grimy world than usual, and as such made some notable changes to DC characters and narratives.
It seems as though the film’s existence can be explained as a vanity project for Todd Phillips, Lady Gaga, and Joaquin Phoenix. Of the film’s 200 million dollar budget, at least a quarter of the production money was estimated to go to Phoenix, Phillips, and Gaga, with the latter’s star power being particularly expensive.
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Joker: Folie à Deux Key Facts |
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Rotten Tomatoes Critics Score |
33% |
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Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score |
31% |
Joker: Folie à Deux was envisioned as a Broadway play before it was ever a movie (Via Variety), owing to Phoenix and Phillips’ desire to bask in further accolades over turning a profit. With unfettered creative control, it seems as though the driving creative forces of Joker: Folie à Deux had already gotten what they needed from the project without worrying about box office success.
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7/10 4.3/10 Joker: Folie a Deux R
Joker: Folie à Deux is the sequel to Todd Phillips’ critically acclaimed comic book thriller Joker. Reprising his Academy Award-winning performance as the failed comedian Arthur Fleck, Joaquin Phoenix revisits the iconic DC character alongside Lady Gaga, who makes her debut as Joker’s lover Harley Quinn in this standalone continuity of the DC Universe.
Director Todd Phillips Release Date October 4, 2024 Writers Todd Phillips , Scott Silver , Bob Kane , Paul Dini , Bill Finger , Bruce Timm , Jerry Robinson Cast Joaquin Phoenix , Lady Gaga , Brendan Gleeson , Catherine Keener , Zazie Beetz , Steve Coogan , Harry Lawtey , Leigh Gill , Jacob Lofland , Sharon Washington , Troy Fromin , Bill Smitrovich , John Lacy , Ken Leung Runtime 138 Minutes
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